One of the PN members posted in her blog an entry discussing people presenting a fals face to the public, but specifically within Wicca and paganism. I found the comments of another responder interesting, and wanted to say a bit more, but didn’t want to hog up her blog spot with my responses to him instead of her, so I am reposting here.
In her own blog, Otterkins posted:
“This may just be how I am interpreting it but it seems that many “high” level Wiccan like to pretend to be some one else and run around bashing each other. Is this not against there own believes of “Harm None”? Why would they need to hide who they are? Why not come forwards as them selves and stand up for there own conventions?”
AJ posted the following reply:
“My opinion is that there is a ‘party line’ and folk stop at that line. They never examine the depth of feelings in their own soul. It is that or they have no soul.
As nature shows that via conflict evolution takes place (natural selection / survival of the fittest) one might think that a nature based religion would encourage intellectual debate to stimulate progress. Evidently, most pagan religions do not. Instead, there is the party line and none to challenge it. I call this stagnation and expect it to lead to extinction.”
So, as I said, instead of cluttering up Otterkins blog, I wanted to post here my response to AJ.
AJ, do you really think that this attitude (bashing others, pretending to be something you are not, etc.) is Wiccan specific, instead of being something indulged in by the general public? And as far as Wiccans not encouraging intellectual debate, that is (in my experience, and my opinion only) horse pucky. Just because not many respond to YOUR aggressive overtones, doesn’t mean they don’t do their own research, or discussion elsewhere, or challenge the “status quo” in their own ways.
I’ve said it in other places, and I’ll say it here again also… I think you have a bee in your bonnet about Wicca, and don’t like how others are either living, or learning, it. Why? I mean, I’ve seen you yell at people for making hurtful blanket generalizations about Christians, but you turn around and insult Wiccans as a whole (”They never examine the depth of feelings in their own soul. It is that or they have no soul.” or “Instead, there is the party line and none to challenge it. I call this stagnation and expect it to lead to extinction.”)… Why?
That’s fine… dislike Wiccans to your little hearts content. Expect us to become extinct… whatever. But your blanket generalizations are frustrating, and thats coming from someone (me!) that respects you, and is hurt and bothered by your continued disparaging remarks about all things Wiccan.
So I ask again… what gives? Should all Wiccans that come to PN and to the PN blogs see this is as S.O.P.? (Standard Operating Procedure, for you non-military folk)
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Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackOtterkins seems to be speaking specifically about WIC leaders, he does use the term “many high level Wiccan” to denote exactly who he is talking about. Not all Wiccans as you have implied, but the many high level Wiccans. As Wicca has no rank structure, I believe he is speaking about authors and other folk who in fact represent a minority in the religion.
You asked: “AJ, do you really think that this attitude (bashing others, pretending to be something you are not, etc.) is Wiccan specific, instead of being something indulged in by the general public?”
I believe if you examine your quote of what I said, you will see that I did not state that my opinion is “Wiccan specific”. I used the term “folk”.
However, do I think Wicca is fast on its way to becoming extinct? I believe the type of Wicca you find in most books (or cardboard boxes) is taking its last breaths right now and I am glad for it. Those folk who joined Wicca in its fad days have grown up and aren’t buying the books anymore. They have mortgages to pay and have discovered that burning a green candle simply won’t accomplish that task. They have children to guide into adult hood and have discovered that the party line of live and let live just doesn’t address such matters as drugs, alcohol, sex, abortion, peer pressure, and other subjects which a religion should. They see 12 year olds like Tempest Smith kiss their image good bye and hang themselves from their bunk bed and hear her mother say she didn’t think there was a problem with Wicca because all the books talked about love and nature. She was right, all the books talk about love and nature. After all, who could argue with love and nature. Not a stance that teens are not old enough to make discussions concerning their own bodies, well that might harm book sales.
If Wicca is what one finds in books and cardboard boxes, then it is about to die. If, on the other hand, it is something more, something that will address the real world needs of its adherents, then no I do not think it will die. I guess the question is really, what is Wicca? Is it what you find in those books and boxed kits or is it what is discovered through conflict and overcoming the challenges of life?
This is why I have spent a fortune in time and money creating Pagan Nation. Not so that I can tell you what your religion is, but so that you, I, and many others can discuss what it and other spiritual paths are. So that we can exchange information and ideas. So that we can be aware of what others think. So that these concepts, these different views, can come into conflict of discussion such that the more suited will grow and thrive.
That is my Standard Operating Procedure.